Ego

topic posted Sun, August 22, 2004 - 3:54 AM by  Heide
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I read a lot about ridding one's self of ego... specifically, zen philosophy believes this is the way to enlightenment...

Here's the epiphany part: "BUT I LIKE MY EGO!!!" - I like other people who have defined egos... Who are themselves... People of whom I can say I haven't met anyone like them...

I've been struggling with this idea... Do you have to get rid of your uniqueness when you get rid of ego? If it is wrong to glory in your own self, is it wrong to glory in other peoples' selves?
posted by:
Heide
Washington
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  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Ego

    Tue, August 31, 2004 - 8:20 AM
    here’s my take on the ego thing.

    the ego is a survival tool. it keeps us alive, competitive, reproducing, eating, sleeping. that's it's job. and that’s pretty crucial. it's basic message is "we're important. we deserve the best. this is fair. this is not fair." etc etc. the ego takes everything personally. the ego is pride. it likes comfort and distraction. the ego’s number one enemy is death. this is because the ego is perishable, like a potato. one day it will disintegrate. with it goes anything that was stored in there. so don’t get too attached to your personality. or anyone else’s. treat a personality as if it were a beautiful tree in a meadow. finite, but wonderful.

    work on your spirit. it is eternal. it is what was before and what is after. it houses our true identity. the spirit knows that your present incarnation is a temporary learning experience, beautiful and precious – but don’t get too attached. the spirit has seen it all before. many times. it's a game. a disguise. an act. it will come to an end. when it does, we finally get to go home for a while, before the next adventure. so the spirit sees death as a welcome signal from the mothership – “ok baby, come home and chill out. you’ve learnt a lot in 78 years. come back and relax for a while before your next (self-appointed) assignment.

    so all the stuff you do and feel, all the sights, experiences, smells, sounds and emotions - put them all into your spirit. don’t concern yourself with putting them into your personality or ego. the ego will look after itself and be much cooler when you don’t focus on it so directly.

    hope that makes sense...

    n-lite
    • Re: Ego

      Tue, September 21, 2004 - 10:09 PM
      Hi all, I like your take on the ego thing. one question - how does one hasten ego death? is that possible? or is it just process; the timeline that just happens, some are shorter/longer that others, i.e. some get it at 17, some get it at 52, others on their deathbed. I've been doing alot of work over the years and it seems it all comes back to my f____' ego. I can't get out of my own way. I guess it's the same as being 'stuck'. I've welcomed 'stuckness', tried to get its' lessons, accepted, etc., but, enough is enough.

      in an odd way it's sort of related to expectations and/or anticipation. some say anticipation is 90% of all things. I wonder; if in my desire to 'hasten' ego death, I'm not creating too much expectation? does this make any sense to anyone here?? the whole concept has really baffled me.

      kb
      • Re: Ego

        Sat, September 25, 2004 - 12:56 PM
        Try living in the moment.

        I'm pretty new to this, but I realize that I have been practicing a lot of these things unknowingly all along. I am reading Thich Nat Hanh's "Peace is Every Step" which is about mindfulness and how by living with constant mindfulness we can bring about peace in the world and in our own lives.

        Anyway, I think that if you are spending a lot of time focusing on how to get to the next level, you are probably maybe missing the point. The point is to appreciate every moment, and I think that your ego will naturally recede a little when you are not expending energy focusing on the future. Maybe you are missing the elements that are right in front of you that you need in order to progress.

        I don't entirely believe that we can lose our egos, to be quite honest. I'm way too much involved in my own head. I am approaching this with an open mind, a Christian religious background, and a willingness to try anything that will help me live a more fulfilled, less stressful life. This is my official epiphany this week. :)
        • Re: Ego

          Sat, September 25, 2004 - 12:58 PM
          Side note: Does anyone have any recommendations on how to practice meditative breathing when you're congested from a cold?
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Ego

        Fri, October 8, 2004 - 8:46 AM
        I know what you mean baby.

        Actual ego death is very rare I would say. My genuine advice to you is to forget it. If it comes, it will come. Your anticipation or anxiety will only stand in the way, so relax and give yourself permission to stand aside. Don't worry about it. Really, just don't.

        I don't have all the answers. Far from it. But I do know about the ego and how it works. Instead of worrying about the ego, instead focus on detachment and attachment. Know when it's cool to be detached, and when it's appropriate to attach. This way you can work alongside your ego with battling it directly. The ego is too protective for open warfare. You need to educate it.

        Make a deal with your ego - "Listen ego, I know you're only doing your job here, but you've got a few things off target. I'm gonna show you a new way of doing things for a little while and I want you to just shut up and watch. Then later, we can talk about it."

        When you have a mental understanding between your spirit and your ego, you can experiment with not taking things personally, not feeling imperfect, not feeling that your deserve more and better. Just try it. The ego will want to intefere, but if you ask it to sit back, you'll see that's its so liberating to just 'be' without any judgment or expectation. Then later, switch the ego back into the game again and see what happens...

        When the mind has the silence and depth of a mountain lake, then you will begin to see the true reflection of the world on it's surface.

        Good luck - come back and and update us!

        n-lite
        x
        • Re: Ego

          Thu, December 9, 2004 - 8:28 AM
          There are some who would regard an answer to this question in a different way. I am one of those who believe it is appropriate to die daily. By this I mean undertaking any number of experiments whereby the ego is annihilated through ecstatic union to something else, an idea, another person, everything, etc. For instance, during orgasm, the ego is temporarily disabled and the experience is analgous to death (for more examples, see Freud and Jung´s work on this subject).

          This union may be temporary, and it may be extremely brief, but the formula is the same as death. Simply surrendering the ego to the feeling of union is enough to start the ball rolling. Now be careful, though. It would not be adviseable to unite with something, or someone, of a limited scope. Seek union with the infinite possibilities of existance. The Egyptians regarded this idea as the Goddess of the night sky Nuit. The point of view of our perception (and consequently the ego as well) is called Hadit. Their union establishes the annihilation of the ego and the ceation of a third, yet separate and distict set of twins or an entity known conversely as Ra-Hoor-Khuit (Horus the Sun God) or Hoor-Paar-Kraat (Harpocrates, the Lord of Silence). Sound confusing?

          Well, there is a book that describes this formula quite well. Continual study will tend to lead to further insights.
          Here it is online:

          oto-usa.org/l220.html

          Enjoy, and feel free to ask me any questions you may have about this book. I can help elucidate several of the more obscure points. Alternatively, you are encouraged to look them up yourself in this commentary by the author:

          www.amazon.com/exec/obido...421-4089600
          • Re: Ego

            Sat, December 11, 2004 - 1:19 PM
            So wait... you're suggesting I just need to have sex every day (with a person or thing of non-limited scope) to lose my ego? ;) What are other ways that you can "die daily?"

            Also, I'm still confused because my original question remains - What if I like other people's egos? The personality, the part that makes a person individual... I mean, how often are we attracted to something not involved with looks, personality, etc.? I guess it does happen, but the ego plays a huge part in who we gravitate to. (I guess maybe one answer would be that a person shouldn't really need friends if he/she is enlightened enough... har. har. har.) So anyway, does this mean that if we like our friends' personalities/egos aren't we encouraging them away from death of ego?

            On a side note, I'm curious to read more about the Egyptians' point of view. Harpocrates, however sounds like a Greek name... any correlation there?
            • Re: Ego

              Mon, December 13, 2004 - 2:19 AM
              The Greeks and Egyptians, who were long time trading partners, often shared ideas about life and death too. In answer to your question, I´m not saying that you should not enjoy other people's egos, personalites, etc. But yes, to stroke someone´s ego in that way does encourage them away from ego death.

              Keep in mind that life is so full of various experiences, joy and pain. The yogi has simply learned not to be too attached to these experiences. It is the attachment to these experiences that remains after the appointed time to experience them which is to blame, not the enjoyment of these experiences. Not being able to let go causes suffering. With the orgasm, the ego is destroyed so that there is nothing left to attach itself to the experience. If the ego is not destroyed, then there is still something left to attach itself to the experience. Since the experience is fleeting, as is also the moment of now, it is not adviseable to seek attachment to it. Not every orgasm results in the destruction of the ego. It takes practice, but this is what is meant by tantra.

              Sex (and masturbation, for that matter) is not the only way to achieve ego death, I only use it as a common example. Other ways include meditation or drugs. Again, these are just some other examples. Perhaps you can think of some more on your own? For each person the road to enlightenment is unique. We are merely able to offer some of our own experience as an example, but not the only solution. Concentrating your thoughts on the infinite is another way to unite yourself in ego death. Perhpaps it is more difficult, but also better for you maybe?
              • On ego death...

                Sat, October 1, 2005 - 12:15 PM
                There was a sort of ego-death practiced by an old-time American commune called the Oneida Community - The ego there was reduced by humiliation.
                The person would sit in the "hot seat" and then all kinds of charges, shortcomings and character faults would be levelled against them by the community.

                It was brutal, but had positive effects, according to what I read about it.

                This kind of ego-reduction is similar to the sort of thing that goes on in military boot camps and other sorts of indoctrinations.

                I suppose that this technique could be used for good ends or bad.
                • Re: On ego death...

                  Sun, October 2, 2005 - 10:27 AM
                  My sister's boyfriend, a very good friend, but the kind of friendship where we piss each other off to no end on purpose and love to argue... I respect him because he can keep up with me and doesn't just sit there and say "that's interesting" - but challenges me and plays the devils advocate... I love it and hate it sometimes.

                  Anyway, he was one of the people who first schooled me in the idea of buddhism because he thinks I'm a little to stuck on my ego... which is possible. hehe. I like my ego sometimes!

                  He used to say that one day when he graduates with his masters in mathematics he was going to open a strict buddhist monestary and teach math and use a whip. He would always joke about his fantasy about beating the ego out of his students. He would hit the back of his hand into the palm of his other hand.... "NO!" SMACK.... "NO SMILING" SMACK SMACK.... hehe.

                  This does not sound as funny now that I'm trying to type it... but I guess you had to be there. OH well... I'm not hitting delete.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: On ego death...

                    Mon, October 3, 2005 - 9:45 PM
                    This kind of ego reduction with a stick is a tough row to hoe!

                    The Oneidans had some sort of after-care, I'm sure, post the ego-pillorying, and the object of the whole thing was to cause one to identify with some transcendent principle beyond one's own ego.

                    But I like some of the other suggestions in this thread; trying to figure out attachment and detachment, for example (Any good essays on that handy, offhand?) or trying to figure out what is Spirit and what is Ego, with a dialogue occurring between the two.
  • On a possibly somewhat related note;

    Sun, October 2, 2005 - 1:40 PM

    I went to a lecture once where the theme was renunciation of desire.
    But, I thought afterwards, won't my desires fall away naturally, anyway?

    The annihilation of my joys and desires (and my sorrows) will happen soon enough. Why should I wish to expedite the process or pretend that it has already occurred?

    What is the desire of the aged, anyway? A warm sweater and a cup of cocoa? (just kidding - Should I be so fortunate as to make it to old age I fully expect to persist in my foolishness at that time, too.)

    I also noted that Siddhartha and The Preacher in Ecclesiastes spend a good long time on the path of worldly pleasures, draining that particular cup to the dregs many times so to speak, before leaving them behind, or at least putting such worldliness in perspective.

    ---------
    Incidentally, I've read a nice synopsis of Siddhartha recently by a teacher who uses it in his classroom:

    www.aasianst.org/EAA/Siddhartha.htm

  • Re: Ego

    Sat, January 7, 2006 - 7:17 PM
    Hi.Fristly,we have one ability that is to express in terms of words,which is constructive as well as destructive.So please use less words,this is a suggestion in general to all.All we find more usage of words more is our confusion more is complicated is picture [most of times.]Ego in Zen means /can be ego which doesn't dominate others . Mahatma Gandhi too had a "Ego".He used his ego in a constructive way.English ruled India witha ego being brutal.Whereas Gandhji used his ego in constructive manner he bought a silent revolution and mainly "NON VOILENCE". To fight Britishers.So it is upto us how we utilize our ego or let ego to dominate us and become salve to it.Think?

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